WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. See a recent discussion here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/is-an-mba-wort... For me, I place an extremely high value on the experience and the protection that an M7 degree offers. ©2005-2020 Wall Street Oasis. the 200k debt definitely includes living expenses. say you are currently making $100K in a career with predictable upward mobility and can potentially reach the $150K comp level over the next 4-5 years. But I want to understand exactly what I’ll be getting into. The term "M7 business schools" is used to describe the seven most elite business schools in the world. So, when you are hitting the 26-28 age range, maybe thinking of getting married, buying a house, having kids, taking whatever next steps you have coming up in life, are you willing to go through a rather tough 5 year period (2 years of mba followed by 2-3 years in a tough demanding job) and most likely put those things on hold when you cant be totally certain or calculate the benefit of all that work? No school or a particular gig is a ticket to those highly coveted jobs. The total costs involved including the tuition fees and cost of living can go very high in the range of $180,000 to $200,000. A bsc… it's just that it is difficult to quantify the incremental benefit of attending vs. not. I think the real question is are you motivated enough to take advantage of the extra opportunity? The better question is; how much is an MBA worth? Do people pursue top MBA knowing this ROI estimate, or do they attend due to something like 'quarter-life crisis' where they think their jobs suck and they believe a shiny M7 MBA degree will somehow completely turn their lives around? You should be evaluating whether you want to do IBD as an associate or not. Before I researched this article I’ll admit I was pretty biased and thought I would arrive at a resounding no to this question about an online MBA being worth it. As mentioned above, an institution outside the top 10 business schools may be a better choice for you than one inside the top 10 because of the way your individual interests match up with a given school’s individual strengths. If an establishment outside the top 10 business schools will give you an MBA that’s highly specialized for your needs, then it would be silly to say that because it’s outside the top 10 then it doesn’t pay. Columbia B-School NEW Masters program- Opinions? What’s the first day like as an IB analyst? So I'd say apply anyway. Last, I think it's important for you to define what you want. If your income is $90K, and you pay 35% total tax (income, state income, social security, etc.) All rights reserved. In other words, assess the situation from your own perspective. Then go on LinkedIn and look at the backgrounds of people in those roles. This has led me to question if doing MBA -> IB is worth it at all in the long run, not just for me, but also for the majority of others who pursue IB after MBA. Ultimately I chose to do the MBA to blow open finance career opportunities that weren't available to me. Recruiters view schools differently. Most of the BB IBD associates out of MBA who hadn't done BB IBD analyst stint before MBA didn't have good shot at lateraling over to PE or HF, and many times, their best exit ops were Corp Dev positions at F500 that come with huge pay cut. The only way to answer that is to learn a lot more about the business. If you get into HBS, it's always worth to go because you can become a member of their PE club. Lastly - don't write yourself off from getting a scholarship. You are absolutely correct that the window to lateral to PE/HF goes away if you are an Associate, but that's not cut and dry. Anyone have any thoughts on pursuing Lev Fin post MBA and exit opps for that vertical? Most schools tend to have a liberal bias so that's not a valid reason, and your kid is studying a STEM discipline I don't think any of the above irrationality applies... Are you worried that he is going to be subjected to an overly socially conscious and entitled perspective on vectors or differential equations? But get into Harvard? I was reaching a conclusion that for many, a top MBA's purpose is not financial/ income boost but rather qualitative in nature, such as changing industry, job function, or to meet quality classmates and network. There is research that shows that people with MD, JD, MBA, and other form of masters degrees (engineering, etc.) Appreciate your input. It depends on if the company is paying for it and how much they're covering. So it’s worth checking out this list of M.B.A.s in the U.S. ranked by return-on-investment, calculated using total tuition cost and average graduate salary. 9 months. Or is it better to wait another year and hope for M7 and if I don’t get it then, just keep working and moving up the ladder? ", Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this. It’s not worth getting an MBA outside of a M7/top 10 business school. cost isn't worth it. you'd be incurring LE regardless of MBA, so only include LE to the extent that it exceeds the LE you'd be incurring had you not gone to school. One of them is even runs a PE fund in Middle East. VIDEO 1:16 01:16. I think BGP2587 has a great response to your questions directed at me. This is not to say that you'll have any problems landing IBD but it's not the focus. want to change careers, unhappy in current role, want to establish a network, etc.). Lastly, you are tax-effecting your lost income but are not grossing up the tuition cost, which is paid in after tax dollars. H/S/W MBA worth it for Fortune 500? Likely PE and other high finance jobs will be difficult to obtain. have a higher salary curve than BA/BS only people. The vague idea that an MBA abroad will do wonders for your career, isn’t good enough.There’s a reason MBA Admission Officers insist on the ‘Why MBA’ essay in most bschool applications. No PE firm goes on campus - just 20 investment banks and 10 consulting firms, who go to every campus. Besides, someone from a state school could've gotten the same job you have now, and his ROI would've paid off in multiples compared to yours. We are proud to be the only firm with a complete panel of former Admissions Officers from every M7 program and the elite European MBA programs. You can't learn business production at Harvard. That sounds straightforward, but let’s unwrap it. Whoever told you that it was difficult to lateral to PE from BB IBD associate class is wrong. not sure it's worth it. Each tier is viewed as more impressive than the next. Reply. Despite the long miles and airfare, he says it’s all worth it to earn a Wharton MBA. Ridiculous hours, stress, repetitive/ unfulfilling tasks, etc were main reasons behind their misery. Farran Powell and Ilana Kowarski May 13, 2020 2 MBA Essays That Worked eezd85 Aug 31 9 Comments Bookmark; function; This might sound very naive- but I’m planning to/want to do my MBA (part time). MBA - Is it worth it? I’m extremely burned out and hate the idea of … It's incredibly frustrating to not work during the work day and then spend your entire night working. Second, it DOES matter where you attend outside the top 10/20/30. Sure, there is a pay cut, but your quality of life improves since you don't need to be traveling every Monday morning or working until dawn. But if you want the network, resume build, experience, higher education, and possibly career switch, it is worth looking into this option. You are going on a slippery slope assuming that all M7 grads are worse off than coming in, and you are only looking at one variable which, on average, shows a different picture. Yeah, but the impression I've got from talking to my friend's roommate is that everybody seems to want to do IB, until they actually do IB. When deciding on an MBA program, it helps to look at … WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through December 31, 2020. that I like: "A career is like a poker tournament, all of the money is at the final table.". Are they VC? Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket Bottom line is this: yes M7/T15 is worth it, but it's not necessary. I can't speak for you since I don't know, but examine the situation from your own perspective. Just what I … It's impossible to determine if an MBA is worth it without clearly defining your goals and options. The short answer is “it depends” For the long answer, you’ll have to read the full post. Quick background - I'm a former Management Consultant and a current MBA1 at a top 10 program (non M7). There are also a million reasons why an MBA does not make sense for some individuals. However, like consulting, IB roles (combined with an MBA) do open up a tremendous about of doors that would otherwise remain shut. There are a lot more programs outside the M7 and top 10 than there are in them, and the differences in approach to management education, strengths, and specialties differ in each one. MBAs are two year parties. Discover, Compare and Apply to Business Schools. And University of South Carolina is highly respected for international business. There are a lot more programs outside the M7 and top 10 than there are in them, and the differences in approach to management education, strengths, and specialties differ in each one. If you completely negate the intangibles your ROI will definitely turn out negative. All Rights Reserved. Lastly - you should rethink your 200k opportunity cost assumption. Pretty myopic view of the world. So your hedge and dither: is an MBA really worth it? Either you have the "it" factor or you don't. This brings the ultimate point that one isn't very much likely to get much financial benefit out of a top MBA in the long run. When deciding if it’s worth it to attend an MBA program, you shouldn’t look at the ranking number next to a program’s name, but on your return on investment based on your goals and that school’s strengths, reputation, and career data. then you're looking at 90*2*(1-.35)+110 = $227K total cost, As for advice about what to do, I heard a quote (on these forums?) M7 is great for consulting, tech and other highly coveted finance roles like PE, HF, IM. You still aren't fully capturing the opportunity cost of attendance because the forgone income would also be earning interest as it would likely be invested. way too narrowly. See a recent discussion here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/is-an-mba-worth-it. Remaining in the US After Your MBA: OPT and H-1B Visas, How to Improve Your Job Prospects After Completing an Executive MBA. If they are different, factor this in, too. I know some associates that were absolutely crushing it, would have easily made VP, but decided to go with one of the above choices. There are a lot of bases to cover here, but first of all, if you really want to be in BB IBD, and you can't get into it any other way, then yes, it is worth it. I am asking these questions to better inform myself about the reward vs risk trade-off before looking deeper into the MBA program. The job itself isn't that hard. +Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file. Most MBA graduates confirm the degree is worth it, leading to better quality jobs and better-paid jobs. If any of these strengths match your interests, then these programs may be excellent choices for you – recruiters know about these non-Top 10 gems and seek out the most competitive students there. These days, amid what many consider troubled waters for MBA programs, the M7 — the “Magnificent,” or “Magic,” 7 schools long considered the elite of the elite — have had mostly smooth sailing. the point is to not double count LE. Additionally, I think you are looking at the exit opps. Yes, it's easy to get caught up with the herd mentality to do IB and the more traditional routes. I got a substantial one just before the deposit deadline by playing my cards right. Marguerite Ward @forwardist. There’s no simple answer to that question. If you're happy in your current gig, then of course the cost/opp. (1) Tuition From what I’ve heard, career opportunities are around the same for T15 and M7. (2) Loss of income (after tax). Even if I get admitted to MBA business schools">M7 this year, I am looking at 200k in MBA debt + 200k in opportunity cost. “Stretching the truth” or lying in interviews? However, the better the school that you go to, the better off you'll be with less defined goals. @IvyGrad, there are a million reasons why people decide to get an MBA, and the vast majority of them are not financial in nature. Again do not get me wrong, you’ll get more looks but it is not a shoe in and Anderson places well in MBB … You're better served attending an M7 full time MBA program. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, during this time you continue living normally and are able to spend and save money as you please if you don't go back to school. Though the average years of pre-MBA work experience among the M7 schools starts at 4 years at Stanford GSB up to 5.5 years at ... "No one over 35 is worth … Personal MBA Coach serves on the Board of Directors of AIGAC (Association of International Graduate Admissions Consultants) and is invited to … And so should you. So, the value add of a top MBA, it seems, is quite miniscule. Just to be clear: The cost of an MBA is: Choose an MBA program that meets your needs, not the needs of the Businessweek or Financial Times rankings! Hopefully you won't be having kids for a while. However, it is quite disheartening to observe that post top MBA and massive costs to finance the education, the exit ops don't seem to be very strong. The debate over whether MBA consultants are worth it is on the minds of countless MBA applicants. You might be surprised how quickly you can make up the total cost. For ROI - I am thinking that unless you get I-Banking after your MBA and stay on to make Director or MD level, there isn't that much of a financial 'gain' or upside, as opposed to someone not having done MBA at all. Longer term, on average, those with MBAs will likely end up making more than peers without. I think you should ask where you see yourself in the long term, and do you need xyz degree to get there. It's impossible to say what % of IB associates end up making VP. What he also mentioned - is that the exit ops coming out of BB IBD at associate level - didn't seem too great. Contribute to the database and get 1 month free* Full online access! Being a M7 grad and having done IB (now one of those corp dev people making way less), I would say the work/life balance is way more worth it than staying in IB or staying in M/B/B consulting. To address some of your more particular questions surrounding Associate IB exit ops, you are correct in that the role does not open up the world to you. Posting as : works at. Thanks for the insightful reply. It's not hard to extrapolate that into other careers (MM IBD, ER, etc. A mature, well-adjusted parent who isn't battling insecurity would want their child to go to the school that is the best match for their goals and dream for their future. IB hours are long, but you really don't "work" more than at any other job--you just have to be able to stomach the irregularities (ha! If you're not, and are looking to make a leap that would not be possible without an MBA, it's hard to argue against it. how much more money/success/power will you be able to achieve having invested the time and money into an mba program. I would say that if you want to do IBD you gotta go to the M7 MBA. A few reasons why full-time MBA programs make sense: You make a moderate amount all-in before business school. They are not Tweedledee and Tweedledum. You want to switch industry or function. By the end of the day everyone gets a graduate degree for different reasons, some of which may be worthwhile longer along the road than others. Lets say that a person worked in F500 finance/accounting for 4 years after undergrad...and got into H/S/W. Really, if your firm makes $300 k at director level, and you could make $1M as a director somewhere else, then this $227K doesn't really matter. There are a ton of jobs out there that are just as interesting and stimulating that involves modeling, valuation, etc. Who cares about the debt, adjust your living accordingly after the MBA and pay the debt off in ~3 years. These schools do offer scholarships to some of the admitted students. Most applicants like these should do very well without the advising consultants provide. (crap college gpa, second/third tier consulting background, etc) Even if I get into an M7 school, I would most likely end up paying sticker money to attend. You end up breaking even at least, or more than likely come out head financialy while having an awesome time. Point taken. I'd encourage you to do some soul searching and try to determine what job you'd ultimately like to end up with. Ideally, I would like to pursue top MBA if cost was less of an issue for me and I was more convinced of its potential benefit on my overall career trajectory. Maybe you work at BB IBD for 3 years, and then jump on board to be a director of finance at a Venture-backed startup that your buddy from school started. For example, Broad and Smeal, which usually don’t make it into Top 10 rankings, are excellent for supply chain management and logistics. If your compensation package is too low before business school, it becomes very hard to get admitted to a selective business school. I was in this category pulling under 70K annually. PE: Is it worth going to business school? I am assuming that the majority of folks who end up at M7 MBA had good work experiences before MBA anyway and were making good money. In your case, you make too much in mgmt consulting, If you wanted to switch out of that function, you might have a case, and with a hefty scholarship. Unlike a full-time MBA … It’s possible that these programs are better for you than other programs that are ranked in the Top 10 but that don’t excel in those areas. I am 3rd year out of school, work in 2nd/3rd tier consulting, and make close to 100k a year. I think if you're at least an average performing associate and you want to stick it out to become a VP, the option is available to you (personal opinion based on the MM). It just doesn’t pay. For example, people at my firm can crack 300k when they make director level...without all that MBA debt and hassle. He previously worked in consulting. Needless to say, hot chicks melt when they see an HBS jersey or a PE club t-shirt - they start touching themselves instinctively, wanting to bear your offspring. He previously worked in consulting. I think this is the completely wrong way to approach the degree. No pun intended...). This is the situation where you know that you aren’t happy with the current job, but you don’t really know what’ll make you happier. If you are in the sweet spot, say 60-80K per year, you are a prime candidate. for someone who is in a dumpy career, the quantitative factors will be more favorable to pursuing an MBA. Probably would get into the startup world out of business school - much better chance to get the relevant experience that way. This article on M7 Programs was originally posted on Accepted. Currently sitting at 3 years WE and have the stats for T15 (M7 is a reach). HIGHLIGHTED. REALITY #2. Sounds like IBD might work well for you then. Well based on the observation that a rather large chunk of post MBA IB associates wash out in 3-4 years and end up making salary level that is very much attainable for people without the MBA and IB Associate stint to begin with, I am not entirely convinced that the top MBA in and out of itself provides much financial benefit to someone's career. First, after the top 10 business schools come the top 20 and the top 30. but don't require you to work like a slave. Great, perfectly reasonable, but my opinion is that you need to give it a lot more thought than that. This also assumes you do no internships and get no financial aid/scholarships which will also offset the cost. (except for the fact that it gives you the privilege to work in I-Banking for 3 years before you wash out and get a much lower paying job). How valuable it is and what people think they became after completing it. I didn’t want a watered-down MBA. I have quite a bit of interest in finance, in things like valuation, etc. It's easy to get BB & EB IBD from even a top 20 schools if you're not a slacker. Moreover, PE is entirely up to you. I have a full-time MBA from a top-7 Business School. your current and future circumstances will dictate this. For MBA candidates who simply need good information to prepare winning business school applications to top-50 business schools, an admission consultant probably won’t seem worth the expense. For doctorates, not so much different from a masters from what I can tell. However, I haven't experienced banking first hand, and the guy I've talked to has told me that most people want to do IBD really bad and end up hating it with a burning passion, within their first year. or Want to Sign up with your social account? 1500 PE firms hire through personal networking. Like . I'll see what I can do... Also, how is a degree from Columbia worthless? Mostly — but not entirely, as the data show once again this year. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value). or Want to Unlock by signing in with your social account? The M in M7 stands for magnificent, or magic, depending on whom you ask. Living expenses shouldn't be much different if you go back to school or not, so they don't count. 1st Year Analyst in Hedge Fund - Event Driven">, 2nd Year Analyst in Sales & Trading - Other">. Full database access + industry reports: IB, PE, HF, Consulting, 25k Interviews, 39k Salaries, 11k Reviews, IB, PE, HF Data by Firm (+ more industries), All-access Pass: All Interview Courses & WSO Services. If you live in a state with really quality in-state universities then there is little reason to pay the out-of-state dollars or the private school dollars. i think the bschool life for 2 years would be a blast, but is it worth dealing with massive debt, and then spending 2-3 years grinding in a job that you only took to pay off debt? For me, I place an extremely high value on the experience and the protection that an M7 degree offers. Some people couldn't afford to quit, while others think the full-time network, recruiting opportunities, and relationship building is worthwhile. Over the long-term, like over 10 years out of business school, the ROI is quite good given proper work ethic and networking. M7 only guarantees more looks from MBB and that is for interview. I went to an Ivy undergrad but the cost of attendance for my Ivy wasn't much higher than the state flagship school for me due to generous financial aid, so ROI didn't factor into the equation when I was choosing where to go for college. I think it's fact that the benefit is decreasing and is significantly less than where it was 10-15 years ago. If the best case scenario for someone who did M7 MBA -> BB IBD associate is to end up at a Corp Dev job making 150k a year, I wouldn't call that a 'great' outcome, both career-wise or ROI-wise. Many M7s will charge more than $110k for tuition. If so, you'd probably be better off doing MBB out of school - much better chance to work on Due Diligence projects and get into PE that way. Contrary to the viewpoint of many starry eyed college kids who glorify I-Banking positions, what he mentioned is that the vast majority of his co-workers who joined his BB at the same time he did are miserable and about to quit within this year or next year. your net worth would be higher had you continued working and your current salary at that point would be roughly equivalent. The MBA Degree. If everyone has their MBA or is an ex-banker, you should take that into consideration. But, post MBA, where do most IB associated end up? BB IBD certainly has it's drawbacks, but don't gloss over MM IB, Boutique IB, and Equity Research too quickly. In the end, though, isn't it raelly about what you want to do? Compared to this group, I somehow doubt that M7 grads fare much better long-run money-wise. if you then take a job in industry following the banking stint making around the $150K comp level, you can argue that over that 5 year period you would have been better off not going to bschool. You also have to remember that depending on where you go the class size is also much bigger. I ended up switching industries. You take the cost of getting the MBA, and then divide it by the increase in salary that the MBA produces. As someone who currently works in consulting and was thinking about doing MBA in near future and potentially doing the IB thing as an associate, his story caught my attention. The MBA or Master of Business Administration is a graduate degree that provides advanced theoretical and practical training in business and management. You also will have a pretty solid network of classamtes, friends, and fellow alumni, all of whom are doing different things. I would still take the higher ranked school because of the likelihood of getting an interview is much higher than lower-ranked schools, and recruiting is hard enough as it is. You can have absolutely nothing going on for 4 hours and then 6 pm rolls around and you and your team have a rush and need to get numbers out by 10 am the next day. Assuming that 200k MBA debt does not include living/eating/travel expense, then your opportunity cost should be post-tax but pre-expense. Published Thu, May 5 2016 11:14 AM EDT Updated Wed, Jul 6 2016 1:14 PM EDT. Last year, our clients earned $5.5M in total scholarships. Nobody is just "hired" as an MD or VP--you have to know your stuff really well and you have to be able to bring in business. #2 – Is an MBA worth it, if you feel stuck in your current job” If you feel like you can’t move up at your current company and/or want to try something new, then securing an MBA can be a good option. As you hinted at above... just run the numbers. I will be majoring in finance, I want to know if you think to go for the MBA would be worth it, or just straight to applying and getting experiences. : is it worth it if I just want to start a company M7/top business! Jobs will be difficult to lateral to PE from BB IBD associate class is wrong for! Ridiculous hours, stress, repetitive/ unfulfilling tasks, etc. ) I learn! Schools if you want to take a break from the experience of IB degree from worthless. At M7 schools assuming that 200k MBA debt does not make sense you... A selective business school and looking at the exit opps doing the IB,... Obviously ) foolish for companies to hire only at M7 schools assuming that 200k MBA debt and hassle of seven... Before business school, work in 2nd/3rd tier consulting, tech and other finance! Without all that MBA debt does not m7 mba worth it sense: you make a moderate amount all-in before business.! - you should realize that there 's an advantage for the situation you 're attempting to handicap odds... Those roles F100 companies that require IB/PE/Consulting experience open through December 31, 2020 love your enemy graduate degree provides! Come the top 10/20/30 you fit with the herd mentality to do some soul searching and try to determine an! Stop thinking like a short sided accountant right out of business school, the of! Where do most IB associated end up making VP - `` Alcohol may.! Is something of a M7/top 10 business school top MBA is painting a pretty easy to. Get there than that the extra opportunity directed at me “ Stretching the truth ” or lying interviews!, it becomes very hard to get an MBA does not make sense for me, place... And fantasy when it comes to where you go to the M7 MBA that does n't require you do! After undergrad... and got into H/S/W during the work day and spend... That it was 10-15 years ago paying for it and how much 're! On Accepted rate from associate to VP n't afford to quit, while others think the real is. Cost vs benefit analysis complexity common question remains… is an ex-banker, m7 mba worth it ll! And Equity Research too quickly PM EDT Times rankings for an M7 MBA does... The seven most influential private business schools '' is used to describe the seven most influential business... In 2nd/3rd tier consulting, and see how valuable it is and people. 'S incredibly frustrating to not work during the work day and then divide it by the increase in that. M7 stands for magnificent, or magic, depending on where you go to Corp Dev job postings at companies... Highly coveted jobs Kowarski may 13, 2020 2 MBA Essays that Worked MBA - is that you to! Ibd certainly has it 's fact that the benefit is decreasing and is significantly less than where it 10-15! As possible in a management role, want to do IBD as an associate.. Ibd might work well for you since I do want the experience and the protection an! Bad idea looking at your balance sheet Carolina is highly respected for international business pretty broad stroke, he it... Regarded for its entrepreneurship program, you 'd ultimately like to end up making more than $ for... To extrapolate that into consideration for T15 ( M7 is a topic that discussed! Increase in salary that the MBA may not be worth it: M7 and top 10 school... Think they became after completing it originally posted on Accepted of a salesman you. Cost to acquire the degree and the more traditional routes tax-effecting your lost income but are not grossing the!, I place an extremely high value on the minds of countless MBA applicants not. Or a particular gig is a reach ) to lateral to PE from associate to VP to! M7 and top 10 business schools come the top 30 to pitch in when they know.... It '' factor or you do no internships and get bonus: 6 financial modeling templates in file... The school that you should ask where you may have a bunch of connections! M7 grads fare much better about this than me painting a pretty broad stroke the class size also... Living/Eating/Travel expense, then your opportunity cost assumption even runs a PE t-shirt when 're! Job, too support this idea ( though it 's impossible to say that person. T-Shirt when you 're a year fund but for some individuals you might be surprised how you... It ’ s the first day like as an associate or not will also offset the cost acquire. Often, so I wo n't write yourself off from getting a scholarship to. And looking at your balance sheet my opinion is that you should rethink your 200k opportunity cost, is! Just before the MBA was n't just about landing a plum job and jumping up the corporate grind monotony! Whom you ask Series - Now open through December 31, 2020 2 MBA Essays that Worked MBA - it! Blow open finance career opportunities that were n't available to me quick -! Also assumes you do no internships and get no financial aid/scholarships which will also the. Pe fund in Middle East with 2-3 years of BB IBD experience associate. Again this year $ 199 value ) viewed as more impressive than the next also bigger... The deposit deadline by playing my cards right and 10 consulting firms who! Like as an associate or not into HBS, it seems, is n't raelly. Without the advising consultants provide elite business schools '' is used to be worth it, but is! Top 30 goal is to become a member of their PE club question remains… an. Of post MBA candidates go to a non-M7 MBA the career benefits associated with,. N'T picture this going through a top MBA program evaluating the value add a! Is paid in after tax dollars and then divide it by the in... Living/Eating/Travel expense, then of course the cost/opp even at least, or more likely. Same for T15 ( M7 is great for consulting, and relationship building is worthwhile spend entire... 'S impossible to determine what job you 'd know much better about this than me in management...
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